I have no idea what those are, but they sound awesome!!! There is going to be a bead show in Denver this weekend, I think by DIA. If you look in your magazines (since your a beadin fool, I know you have plenty) they are advertising it. They might have something like that there. I went to the same show last year, but down in New Mexico, and they had tons of stuff. I'm probably gonna spend a couple of days there, so if you can't get to it, I'll be able to report back. I will keep my eyes open!!!