How do you price???

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Posts 2,144
on Jan 27, 2009 11:57 AM

Finished reading the 9 posts before my previous one ...

If I weren't doing beading related things or other hobby, I'd probably sit on my fat a**, watch the boob tube, vegetate and get fatter; YUCK!  I bead 'cause I like to, I have other hobbies too, but don't want to restrict myself to just one or two; I don't make any money at those, but I do get satisfaction, and don't to feel like I 'have to' do something. 

I could have gone to Burger King @ $10 an hour if I needed money that badly.  If the occasional sale I make (at some one else's insistance) helps me buy more beads, fine. 

It's a HOBBY for me, folks!

Stan B.

p.s.  I plan to try following the guidlines on the link in my last post, using my $$ figure for my labor, not someone else's ...

Stan B.

Lakeland, MN

USA

Ignorance is curable; Stupidity has neither cure nor excuse.

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Posts 5
on Jan 27, 2009 4:10 PM

 Wow, lots of people's feathers are ruffled.  I am responding based on a few posts that occurred after mine, but did not mention me directly, so I don't even know if they were actually referring to me.  Anyway, I would like to clarify a few things...

I am not against the hobbyist.  I have several hobbies - woodworking, quilting, home renovations, stamping and stained glass to name a few.  I love hobbies.  I have chosen to turn my jewelry hobby into a jewelry business.  So now I treat it as a business, and I act in a professional manner, as a business person should.  I treat my other hobbies differently.  I do not try to make money or a living from them.  If someone asked me to make something for them (woodworking for example) I would charge enough to cover my costs and my time, but I am not actively looking for customers, or trying to compete with businesses.  I am doing my hobby for my own pleasure.  Remember I am talking about myself - not everyone else.

It was never my intention to tick people off or belittle them.  That said, I still stand by a few things I said and here's why.  I agreed with Leah because she had some valid points, and my interpretation of her story about a hobbyist selling at a nearby booth was that she was at an "Art Show" type of event where the vendors are usually businesses/professionals.  So in that case the hobbyist was underpricing and hurting the businesses at the business venue, and the hobbyist was at the wrong venue, unless they wanted to professionally price their stuff.

Then I told my own story of a few "craft fairs" that I had a booth at, and most the other vendors were hobbyists so my stuff seemed pricey.  As I mentioned I was at the wrong venue for my business!  The hobbyists were at the right venue.  I did not complain or give off bad vibes.  I entered the show knowing that it would be that way, but I still entered because the booth fee went to a charity I support and I considered it to be "advertising" even if I didn't sell a thing (but I did end up selling enough to cover my costs).  I am not actively entering "craft fairs" because they are not the right venue for me, but I will still do one here or there if I am invited.  I am actively entering juried "art shows" because they are the better venue for my jewelry and for my business. 

I did voice my frustration, in my previous entry and appropriately to the fair organizer in the post show survey, about vendors who "add" jewelry to their booth when they were listed as selling something completely different (like baby bibs).  My complaint is, no matter the venue, vendors (professional or hobbyist) should sell only what they listed on their show application.  The organizer had worked very hard to have a balanced show and space out vendors who sell the same basic product.  What ended up happening was everyone on all sides of me (who were not supposed to be selling jewelry) decided to "add" some jewelry to their booth.  The result was an oversaturated show.

Here's my take on the difference between "craft fairs" and "art shows" and "flea markets".  A craft fair is a smaller show that is usually at a school, church or recreation center.  It is not juried.  Most of the vendors will fall into two catagories - the hobbyist or the party plan consultant (like Pampered Chef).    I enjoy going to craft fairs - I can usually find neat stuff, and often at a great price.  An art show is a larger, multi-day event, often outside in a city park or downtown area, or inside in a convention center.  It is juried.  It usually only happens once or twice a year, the booth fee is more expensive, you must have or rent a white tent, and you have to have insurance to be a vendor.  Most of the vendors are business / professional artists (either part or full time) and come from all over the country.  I also love going to art shows - this is where I find artistic things, and I am looking for quality or uniqueness not a low price.  Lastly the flea or farmers market can be large or small and occurs on a regular basis.  The vendors usually sell used items, agricultural products, and some also have vendors who sell new and handmade items like jewelry.  It is usually a mix of hobbyist and business/professional, and often not juried.  I also like them, but I am not expecting to find high quality stuff (unless it is agricultural), and I am usually looking for a good deal - just like at a yard sale.

When a show is "Juried" you pay a jury fee and have to submit photos and descriptions of your work and booth when you apply.  The show organizer's review or jury all entrants and choose vendors based upon the quality of their work and if it fits into the show as a whole.  They keep the show balanced by not letting one type of work saturate the show.  This is different than a show just wanting to know what you plan on selling.  The jury process can be quite competitive.

Finally the Beading Daily forums are for everyone who loves to bead or make jewelry - hobbyist and professional alike.  Neither of them should ever be made to feel like they are unwelcome.  It is a great place to find out information, learn something new, or even occasionally vent to others who might be in the same place.

Thanks for letting me be on the soapbox

Tina

www.cloudhaledesign.com 

 

Top 10 Contributor
Posts 2,144
on Jan 27, 2009 8:11 PM

Soap boxes are good for lots of things.  I get up on one too.  Your description of the various markets seems to me to be very accurate, my category was not there because the six items I have sold do not fit -- they were sales made while I was beading them, with no intention of selling.

Juried shows are really a good thing, but I'll never enter one -- cannot afford the costs with my purposely small stock of items.  I only go to a local one to see what is being done in all the Art areas -- very nice work.  I've purchased some paintings and photos I liked there; not cheap, and very good.  The jewelry items were not as high in price as the prints, but they weren't my style.

I've seen craft fairs and flea markets.  Not too wild about the former, and really don't want to sell anywhere, but especially not at a flea market.  Those are my opinons, and not a slam on anyone. 

I do my beading anyplace I want -- at home, in the local coffee shop, at the local grade shchool when they wanted some people to come and show various crafts to the kids, at a resort hotel in the Dominican Republic when I didn't want to do much of anything and was tired of studying the Spanish language, while camping [as do some others on this site], for example.

I'd be just as happy if no one would ask to purchase anything, I'm a hobbyist and, I enjoy it, and give away most of my product.

Tell me your philosophy on pricing, and I'll listen closely -- it gives me a chance to learn something -- but don't expect me to follow your guidelines, my work is different from yours, and I'll be happy giving it away to a kid who wanted to buy it for a present to his sister.

You cannot ruffle my feathers, because I won't let you.  We can amicably disagree and learn from each other anyway.

With that mish-mash over, I cannot disagree with any of your comments, and on the subject of prices for the specific markets, I MUST agree with you. 

Thnks for speaking up, it helps to clear the air, and thusly we can learn to understand each other.

And this is truly what I believe is the most impotant part of what you said:

"Finally the Beading Daily forums are for everyone who loves to bead odr make jewelry - hobbyist and professional alike.  Neither of them should ever be made to feel like they are unwelcome.  It is a great place to find out information, learn something new, or even occasionally vent to others who might be in the same place."

I can only add 'Amen".  (Thanks, Tina)

Stan B.

 

Stan B.

Lakeland, MN

USA

Ignorance is curable; Stupidity has neither cure nor excuse.

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Posts 7
Jennifer@186 wrote
on Jan 27, 2009 10:38 PM

 Hi, I started out beading for myself and gifts for friends and family but then some people suggested that I should sell them.  The shop I sell through takes a 20% commission on items sold.  The shop owner said what she does is work out her price and then double it.  Unless you are professional, and I mean really professional, then we can't really charge per hour for what we make.  So that's what I do.  Once I began selling I started makng notes on I everything I bought.  I put stickers with prices (1/2 cent items rounded up, I'm in Aust) in my containers.  As I make something, even if I decide not to sell it, I write down the cost of all items.  I then double and add 25% to get my final price.  Sometimes I might round it up or down slightly but my jewellary sells ok and I get back a small profit.  ie: if something worked out at $11.50 to make that doubles to $23 then add 25% equals $28.75. Minus 20% commission equals $23.   I might round it up to $30 or down to $25 or $28 and still be able to make a profit.    If I had a stall at a market I might leave the 25% off or keep it for extra profit depending on where I was.  Hope this works for you. It works for me.

Jennifer

 

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Posts 1,486
Lody wrote
on Jan 23, 2010 6:52 PM

Thanks to Jeni for sharing this link as pricing is my current dillema at the moment. I just finished reading few posts but will continue. I know I'll leanr a lot from this thread. So thanks for your inputs everybody!:)

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Posts 7
Jennifer@186 wrote
on Jan 24, 2010 7:13 PM

Hi,

in relation to my last post (28/01/09) twelve months ago now, I have something else to put in.  I still price all my beads as they are purchased but my pricing had changed for finished pieces.  I bought a pricing program online  (from Eni Oken)  that is really useful. You put in all the information and the time it tok and it spits out a wholesale price.  There are lots of things that you can adjust to make it better suited to what you want.  I put everything in and then decide from the outcome what to price my jewellery.  Because I found this as a pop up type of feature I'm not sure if you would be able to google her name and get the results.

Hope this is ok to you.

Jennifer

www.marcatodesigns.com.au

 

 

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Posts 56
cool_moon wrote
on Jan 25, 2010 10:20 AM

Welcome to the forum, Jim, AND, I for one, agree with you.  I have been a jewelry designer  for several years, and have owned my own shop for 3 of them.  The one thing that hurts everyone in my business in this area is other beaders underpricing when selling their work.   Many of them just don't understand the profit concept - they just want to have fun.  And it should be fun, for the most part, but it's also a serious FOR PROFIT business.    I too, am a seed bead artist, and yes, seed beads are fairly inexpensive.  But the WORK, the passion felt and the seriousness of my profession as a shop owner and jewelry designer is one of the motivators for my prices.  I also add quality sterling and semi precious stones to my pieces, which adds to the quality of them.   Do I sell my high end pieces?  Actually - not on a regular basis, but enough that I have a customer following.   I keep most of my pieces mid range - in the $20 to $75 price range.   I have customers that will purchase the mid range items on a regular basis, but LOVE having the high end ones available for special occasions and splurges.  It works for me!
The bottom line is that if you value YOURSELF, you have to put value into what you do.   Never doubt that you are WORTH it.   Your customers are buying from you because they don't want to take the time to make it themselves - and that right there, is WORTH charging for.  You aren't just having fun - you are offering them a product that they want to feel confident is worthy of the price.   Offer quality - and offer it at a higher price (not outrageously high) and it will pay off for you.   (Being confident about yourself AND your product during the sale helps, too.)
On a related note - one of the posters mentioned that they use Jewelry Designer Manager.  I, too, use that program.  GREAT product.  If you have the time to log in all your components, and keep track of all your sales, vendors, inventory, etc., it will do the calculation and file work for you.  I just get a little lazy about adding inventory sometimes....oops.  Oh well.
Anyway - good luck to all of you selling your work out there.  Remember - put value into yourself AND your work and it will reward you in return....

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Posts 56
cool_moon wrote
on Jan 25, 2010 10:27 AM

Ok.  So I'm not real quick today, and didn't notice that the original post for this started almost 2 YEARS ago!   
After 2 years, if you are still doing this as just a hobby, and can justify the cost just for having 'something to do' - more power to ya.   As long as you are happy with what you do - and are making others happy with your jewelry as a result - then go for it.

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Posts 1,486
Lody wrote
on Jan 25, 2010 4:46 PM

Thanks for your new inputs Jennifer and cool_moon.

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Posts 14
misswicked wrote
on Jan 25, 2010 5:23 PM

Right with you, Jim! Would you wash dishes for $3.00 an hour? Would you spend $75.00 on a hair style that will grow out and be gone in weeks to months? Would you buy a beautiful pair of expensive shoes that will be out of style in one to two year - but you wouldn't buy a handmade, original piece of gorgeous jewelry that will last for your lifetime for $75.00 to $100?

I find that selling on Etsy, I make very few sales. Many Etsy customers are looking for a bargain - and I don't blame them. But when I sell through gallery shops (I do original work), I can get 3 times what I ask on Etsy - and the customers don't even blink.

I think you have to decide who your customer is? Someone on a budget (like you and me) who can't afford a $150 necklace or bracelet? If you're selling to that market - then it's best to figure out something pretty that you make very quickly and cheaply. And no harm in that. EXCEPT you are now competing with China - where people make a whole lot less than you'd need if this was your living.

A friend of mine who designs dance costumes spent years trying to take it easy on the companies she designed for. And finally she told me she figured out that it was just as easy to find ONE customer willing to pay $100 as it was to find 10 who would pay $10.00

Once you feel confident that you are making original work, that it's sturdy and will wear, that you're using the best quality findings available - then, in my humble opinion, you are an artist. And no one ever said to a great artist - "but it's just paint on canvas! Why does it cost so much?"

Okay! Let fly!

 

 

 

 

Top 10 Contributor
Posts 2,144
on Jan 27, 2010 3:30 PM

cool_moon:

Ok.  So I'm not real quick today, and didn't notice that the original post for this started almost 2 YEARS ago!   
After 2 years, if you are still doing this as just a hobby, and can justify the cost just for having 'something to do' - more power to ya.   As long as you are happy with what you do - and are making others happy with your jewelry as a result - then go for it.

Yep, It's still "only a hobby" for me!!  I still like to give the stuff away, the reaction of the kids getting them is "more precious than gold, yea than  much fine gold", and the pleasure for all concerned just cannot be bought anywhere. 

I recently sold a simple bracelet for $25.00 -- it's similar in style to the SSES #1 swap earrings that I sent to Sue.  I had donated a very similar one to a silent auction, where it went for that price.  They were worth it to the women who purchased them, and I doubt I would ever want to make another one [[unless some silly fool wanted to pay $100 to $200 for it.]]

As for justifying the "cost", the other things which would fill my time would not bring in ANY ¢a$h.  I am retired, do volunteer work, don't want the tax and book keeping hassle, and I really don't like to sell.

It is good to help people with pricing, but BAD to tell another beader that s/he "has to price it like this!"  The demographics vary in the USA, and in many areas, people cannot justify paying the price.

Stan B.

Lakeland, MN

USA

Ignorance is curable; Stupidity has neither cure nor excuse.

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Posts 41
Jim Juris wrote
on Jan 27, 2010 3:54 PM

Hi Stan,

I would like to offer you a suggestion.  This is only a suggestion, so if you don't like my suggestion that is fine.

I would like to suggest that you make some inexpensive earrings and take them to hospitals or nursing homes in your area and pass them out to the patients.  You would be thrilled by how happy you make these people.

 

Top 10 Contributor
Posts 2,144
on Jan 27, 2010 4:05 PM

Jim, you may offer suggestions anytime, I will read them, and then do what I want.  Thanks for the idea, I'll need to check it out first, and then see how much I want to do; it sounds interesting though !!

Stan B.

Lakeland, MN

USA

Ignorance is curable; Stupidity has neither cure nor excuse.

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Posts 1
airiel49 wrote
on Jul 7, 2012 8:43 PM

Hi Jim, I do agree with your post..Pricing our designs should tell our customers we take pride in what we make. I am not giving my designs away for hardly anything..

I do have a question and maybe you can help me.. This lady I have my designs in her shop,wants me to string alot of necklaces and fix some she is going to supply everything I need to do this, my question is I am not sure how much to charge for my labor? I dont want to do it for too cheap but not shock her either, I have been giving this alot of thought and I decided to see what you might say on this..   Mary R

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SCB1 wrote
on Jul 7, 2012 9:44 PM

airiel, in the shop I work in, we charge a fee of $10.00 for any restringing or repair of beaded item, and  that is in addition to the cost of any supplies. I would not be afraid to charge this amount, after all it is your time and know how. If she fells that this is too much ask her what she was thinking, and maybe between the two of you, a happy medium can be agreed upon.  If she is passing this price onto the customer, I don't see where $10. would be a problem.

Happy Beading!!

Happy Beading!!

Sue,

Small-town USA. 

Michigan.

 

 

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