Beading Business

Re: How do you price???

Jennifer — Wed, 28 Jan 2009 05:38:27 GMT

Hi, I started out beading for myself and gifts for friends and family but then some people suggested that I should sell them. The shop I sell through takes a 20% commission on items sold. The shop owner said what she does is work out her price and then double it. Unless you are professional, and I mean really professional, then we can't really charge per hour for what we make. So that's what I do. Once I began selling I started makng notes on I everything I bought. I put stickers with prices (1/2 cent items rounded up, I'm in Aust) in my containers. As I make something, even if I decide not to sell it, I write down the cost of all items. I then double and add 25% to get my final price. Sometimes I might round it up or down slightly but my jewellary sells ok and I get back a small profit. ie: if something worked out at $11.50 to make that doubles to $23 then add 25% equals $28.75. Minus 20% commission equals $23. I might round it up to $30 or down to $25 or $28 and still be able to make a profit. If I had a stall at a market I might leave the 25% off or keep it for extra profit depending on where I was. Hope this works for you. It works for me.

Jennifer

Re: How do you price???

CrystalCubeBead. — Wed, 28 Jan 2009 03:11:23 GMT

Soap boxes are good for lots of things. I get up on one too. Your description of the various markets seems to me to be very accurate, my category was not there because the six items I have sold do not fit -- they were sales made while I was beading them, with no intention of selling.

Juried shows are really a good thing, but I'll never enter one -- cannot afford the costs with my purposely small stock of items. I only go to a local one to see what is being done in all the Art areas -- very nice work. I've purchased some paintings and photos I liked there; not cheap, and very good. The jewelry items were not as high in price as the prints, but they weren't my style.

I've seen craft fairs and flea markets. Not too wild about the former, and really don't want to sell anywhere, but especially not at a flea market. Those are my opinons, and not a slam on anyone.

I do my beading anyplace I want -- at home, in the local coffee shop, at the local grade shchool when they wanted some people to come and show various crafts to the kids, at a resort hotel in the Dominican Republic when I didn't want to do much of anything and was tired of studying the Spanish language, while camping [as do some others on this site], for example.

I'd be just as happy if no one would ask to purchase anything, I'm a hobbyist and, I enjoy it, and give away most of my product.

Tell me your philosophy on pricing, and I'll listen closely -- it gives me a chance to learn something -- but don't expect me to follow your guidelines, my work is different from yours, and I'll be happy giving it away to a kid who wanted to buy it for a present to his sister.

You cannot ruffle my feathers, because I won't let you. We can amicably disagree and learn from each other anyway.

With that mish-mash over, I cannot disagree with any of your comments, and on the subject of prices for the specific markets, I MUST agree with you.

Thnks for speaking up, it helps to clear the air, and thusly we can learn to understand each other.

And this is truly what I believe is the most impotant part of what you said:

"Finally the Beading Daily forums are for everyone who loves to bead odr make jewelry - hobbyist and professional alike. Neither of them should ever be made to feel like they are unwelcome. It is a great place to find out information, learn something new, or even occasionally vent to others who might be in the same place."

I can only add 'Amen". (Thanks, Tina)

Stan B.

Re: How do you price???

Cloudhaledesign — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 23:10:17 GMT

Wow, lots of people's feathers are ruffled. I am responding based on a few posts that occurred after mine, but did not mention me directly, so I don't even know if they were actually referring to me. Anyway, I would like to clarify a few things...

I am not against the hobbyist. I have several hobbies - woodworking, quilting, home renovations, stamping and stained glass to name a few. I love hobbies. I have chosen to turn my jewelry hobby into a jewelry business. So now I treat it as a business, and I act in a professional manner, as a business person should. I treat my other hobbies differently. I do not try to make money or a living from them. If someone asked me to make something for them (woodworking for example) I would charge enough to cover my costs and my time, but I am not actively looking for customers, or trying to compete with businesses. I am doing my hobby for my own pleasure. Remember I am talking about myself - not everyone else.

It was never my intention to tick people off or belittle them. That said, I still stand by a few things I said and here's why. I agreed with Leah because she had some valid points, and my interpretation of her story about a hobbyist selling at a nearby booth was that she was at an "Art Show" type of event where the vendors are usually businesses/professionals. So in that case the hobbyist was underpricing and hurting the businesses at the business venue, and the hobbyist was at the wrong venue, unless they wanted to professionally price their stuff.

Then I told my own story of a few "craft fairs" that I had a booth at, and most the other vendors were hobbyists so my stuff seemed pricey. As I mentioned I was at the wrong venue for my business! The hobbyists were at the right venue. I did not complain or give off bad vibes. I entered the show knowing that it would be that way, but I still entered because the booth fee went to a charity I support and I considered it to be "advertising" even if I didn't sell a thing (but I did end up selling enough to cover my costs). I am not actively entering "craft fairs" because they are not the right venue for me, but I will still do one here or there if I am invited. I am actively entering juried "art shows" because they are the better venue for my jewelry and for my business.

I did voice my frustration, in my previous entry and appropriately to the fair organizer in the post show survey, about vendors who "add" jewelry to their booth when they were listed as selling something completely different (like baby bibs). My complaint is, no matter the venue, vendors (professional or hobbyist) should sell only what they listed on their show application. The organizer had worked very hard to have a balanced show and space out vendors who sell the same basic product. What ended up happening was everyone on all sides of me (who were not supposed to be selling jewelry) decided to "add" some jewelry to their booth. The result was an oversaturated show.

Here's my take on the difference between "craft fairs" and "art shows" and "flea markets". A craft fair is a smaller show that is usually at a school, church or recreation center. It is not juried. Most of the vendors will fall into two catagories - the hobbyist or the party plan consultant (like Pampered Chef). I enjoy going to craft fairs - I can usually find neat stuff, and often at a great price. An art show is a larger, multi-day event, often outside in a city park or downtown area, or inside in a convention center. It is juried. It usually only happens once or twice a year, the booth fee is more expensive, you must have or rent a white tent, and you have to have insurance to be a vendor. Most of the vendors are business / professional artists (either part or full time) and come from all over the country. I also love going to art shows - this is where I find artistic things, and I am looking for quality or uniqueness not a low price. Lastly the flea or farmers market can be large or small and occurs on a regular basis. The vendors usually sell used items, agricultural products, and some also have vendors who sell new and handmade items like jewelry. It is usually a mix of hobbyist and business/professional, and often not juried. I also like them, but I am not expecting to find high quality stuff (unless it is agricultural), and I am usually looking for a good deal - just like at a yard sale.

When a show is "Juried" you pay a jury fee and have to submit photos and descriptions of your work and booth when you apply. The show organizer's review or jury all entrants and choose vendors based upon the quality of their work and if it fits into the show as a whole. They keep the show balanced by not letting one type of work saturate the show. This is different than a show just wanting to know what you plan on selling. The jury process can be quite competitive.

Finally the Beading Daily forums are for everyone who loves to bead or make jewelry - hobbyist and professional alike. Neither of them should ever be made to feel like they are unwelcome. It is a great place to find out information, learn something new, or even occasionally vent to others who might be in the same place.

Thanks for letting me be on the soapbox

Tina

www.cloudhaledesign.com

Re: How do you price???

CrystalCubeBead. — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 18:57:02 GMT

Finished reading the 9 posts before my previous one ...

If I weren't doing beading related things or other hobby, I'd probably sit on my fat a**, watch the boob tube, vegetate and get fatter; YUCK! I bead 'cause I like to, I have other hobbies too, but don't want to restrict myself to just one or two; I don't make any money at those, but I do get satisfaction, and don't to feel like I 'have to' do something.

I could have gone to Burger King @ $10 an hour if I needed money that badly. If the occasional sale I make (at some one else's insistance) helps me buy more beads, fine.

It's a HOBBY for me, folks!

Stan B.

p.s. I plan to try following the guidlines on the link in my last post, using my $$ figure for my labor, not someone else's ...

Re: How do you price???

CrystalCubeBead. — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 18:31:18 GMT

I was just reading FMG's "Newsletter for Jewelry Makers - Making Jewelry and Making Friends ... For Fun and Profit" at " <http://www.firemountaingems.com/encyclobeadia/beading_resources.asp?docid=8A2R&WT.fmg_linksection=5JQA80LOM148&WT.mc_id=NL090120>.

The article includes some things I haven't seen on BD. I didn't copy it -- Copyright, you know

Stan B.

Re: How do you price???

SunriseJewelry — Sun, 25 Jan 2009 19:26:48 GMT

Tacking on extra for online orders which include shipping and handling??....I work out the certain percentage that should be added to the cost of the beads on that order as they are added to stock, NOT at the time of sale of a creation made with those beads. And if I don't pay for shipping and handling for an online order, I certainly wouldn't jack up my price to account for "what may have been".

TAX....that's a whole other conversation. Here in California, I am supposed to add tax to each sale WITHIN the state of California only. If I sell something to Sue in Michigan, then I am not required to pay CA tax on that sale and should not be charging her tax since I do not pay taxes in Michigan. Also, charging tax on a sale within CA is completely separate from whether I am charged tax when I purchase an item. See, clear as mud.

And THAT only validates my post above about there NOT being only one correct answer on how to price.

Re: How do you price???

HelenC — Sun, 25 Jan 2009 01:27:51 GMT

I agree with your pricing. I also try to tack on bit of shipping and handling if I have sent for beads and supplies. And tax when you buy something not on your business account.

Avalon Arts

Re: How do you price???

JennyA — Sat, 24 Jan 2009 13:58:02 GMT

I also bought Eni's pricing calculator a few years ago. It helped me realize what other were charging. And I do not use it for my simple beading, but I do use it for my husbands metalsmithing and hand torched glass. If I wire-wrap something I will use it as well.

As for simple beading, I just take the cost of my materials times by 3, earrings and cheap bracelets sometimes works out better for me to just add $10 to the cost. I sell in a store and they take 30% and when I started using this formula I started making more money then her-so I am happy with that. I should make more than her because I made it, she just supplied the store and the person to process the transaction. I know she would love to make more, but I don't think my jewelry would sell as well if I had to raise my prices again.

Those are my two cents from Missouri!

Happy creating everyone

Jenny

www.alexandersdesigns.com

Re: How do you price???

sarabu — Sat, 24 Jan 2009 00:23:32 GMT

Perhaps to make a point, and not ruffle anyone by being personal-

Take our selection of beads. There are many wonderful beads made- cut or fashioned- by hardworking people who would like to make a living doing what they love, and they are priced at what would make that possible.

Someone- or even some country of someones- comes along and says, "I can do that for less". Perhaps they even blatantly rip off designs and steal photographs to do so.

The market responds- yeah! cheap(er) beads! We can all buy some! We can all buy more!

Original artists despair- our livelihood is threatened! They stole our stuff!

And for awhile, the newcomers prosper, until bead start to break, or the beads really are not so pretty as the first ones, or people get sued over copyright infringement, or the market is so-well, distressingly SIMILAR that no one is selling much at all.

Except the person with the NEXT new idea, the fresh one- or maybe the one making a quality product for less, but still profitably. But the junk will fall to the wayside, and the playing field will have changed. Some original bead makers will still be valued for their craftsmanship, or their design, and some newcomers will be valued in their own right, too.

It's all a cycle, some people will find that they are not able to live doing their life's sole passion, some will have to compromise, some will have to supplement. No one owns the right to make a living doing anything, we can all just try and do what we can. Enterprises go out of business all the time because of various reasons- costs go up but customers resist paying more, a new hot place opens up down the street, technology makes doing things the "old" way less practical or affordable- you name it. It's all part of the cycle, hard as it may be to adjust ourselves or face the facts.

An alternative is price fixing. ; )

Sarah

Re: How do you price???

Morna — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 21:29:30 GMT

Excellent perspective.

Re: How do you price???

SunriseJewelry — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 21:26:42 GMT

Cariad:

This is what I was told by a lady on the craft show circuit: Keep track of what your materials cost. Multiply by three, and you've got your price. The first third is to cover the cost/replacement of materials; the second third is to cover any increase in price (you bought those charms for $5 last time, but now they cost $7); and the last third is your profit.

And therein lies the whole point to this discussion. So many people have completely differing methods to determine what they charge for their creations. There is NOT just ONE correct answer, period. But there is an answer that works for each of us, whatever the method happens to be.

There really should be no argument about this. Except when it comes to someone who thinks he/she is better than everyone else and tries to belittle others and demean their work, which, in any industry, is not tolerated for long before that person is put into his/her place.

Re: How do you price???

Cariad — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 21:00:12 GMT

This is what I was told by a lady on the craft show circuit: Keep track of what your materials cost. Multiply by three, and you've got your price. The first third is to cover the cost/replacement of materials; the second third is to cover any increase in price (you bought those charms for $5 last time, but now they cost $7); and the last third is your profit.

That holds pretty true for a lot of things. For the more intricate and time consuming stuff, then I start looking to charge more for time than material.

Re: How do you price???

AudreyG — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 19:39:37 GMT

Way to go!!! I am a hobbyist - wanna be professional. That is, I am trying to create beautiful and quality pieces. I have a website (2 counting Etsy) and am regularly told how good my pieces are and how well I coordinate colors. I try to be unusual and original. As a professional - yes, I have two master’s degrees, albeit in English and Library Studies instead of art or jewelry. I know how it feels to not be valued for my training. Unfortunately, we don’t wear our degrees on our foreheads, and most people don’t realize. That said, a degree definitely does not determine a person’s worth or the worth of his or her product. It also does not give anyone the right to belittle another person’s work because they’re a mere “newby” or “hobbyist.” I hope that those that consider themselves professionals also love their work and also consider themselves hobbyists. If not, then they’re no different than any other person who goes to work every day and wishes they could just do what they want. Also, if they don’t love it for the joy of working with beads or other beautiful materials then their work will show that and be somehow less. I taught high school English for 30 years and tried to instill into my students the respect they should feel for everyone else, no matter station in life or education. Same goes for everyone here. I love forums because they’re a source of much knowledge and lots of reassurance. They open up a whole new world with people I’m sure I would really like if I could meet them. I like them even though I haven’t met them, in fact. However, it does get to me when some come across like they’re better. I guess it takes all kinds, and I usually don’t say anything. But this really demands an answer. If a student in one of my classes had belittled another student, I would have come down really hard on that student - in front of the rest of the class.

Having said all of that, I also have trouble pricing my work. I would like to price it fairly - and I have some out there priced fairly high - I have yet to sell it on the web or at sales. I have sold some highly-priced pieces to people I know and to their acquaintances. I am “merely” a retired teacher, but I do have to earn money to live retirement comfortably - you know, buy beads, go to movies, go out to eat now and then - the usual things that make life fun and livable. My usual method is to triple my materials. I’d like to charge by my time, also, but I can never just stay with the job - always being interrupted by many things that life throws at me like phone calls, washing, cleaning, visits from friends, etc. Since the economy is in trouble, I have taken to giving 20% discounts for items over $50. I don’t do that everywhere, but on my website and at the shows I do that even though it hurts. However, there is something to be said for being paid a lower price over not being paid at all. I don’t want to lower the original price, but somehow a sale price can always be discontinued. I DO agree that there are too many - even hobbyists - who way undersell their work and it DOES hurt the rest of us. At the last show I went to, there was a lady selling her Swarovski necklaces for $8 or $10 and it really irritated me. My jewelry was more expensive and others told me that the quality was higher than the other booths, but I still didn’t sell much whereas they were doing a “bang up” business.

I guess competition is just that - and we just have to decide whether we are going to give in or keep our prices where they belong and ignore the people who are undercutting our prices just like everyone else in the retail world. Thanks for listening. I’ll try not to get on my soap box too often.

Re: How do you price???

JoellaM — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 15:35:59 GMT

I totally agree w/ Jim -- I was amazed to see how many of you that discussed pricing don't take into account your time shopping, of pricing and making tags for things, for having a booth somewhere, etc, etc. And for the person who said ' would I buy it for this price' -- that's not the way to price something. As Jim said -- you are hurting not only yourself but the other jewelry artists also when you price something too cheaply. Joella

Re: How do you price???

CrystalCubeBead. — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 18:20:51 GMT

Liana,

Very good, very clear. I like your method of determining labor costs. Some wil insist that you are undervaluing your labor, but it seems to me that your friend was correct.

Good luck.

Stan B.