Is copying okay?

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Top 75 Contributor
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on Sep 15, 2008 8:38 AM

Do you think it is completely okay to make and sell another artist's designs?

Perhaps you saw the project in Step by Step Beads or Beadwork or on Beading Daily. You recreate it, pretty much a duplicate. Do you think once something is published it means that the original artist is giving carte blanche permission for anyone to make and sell exact copies of their designs?

The "and sell" part is the critical issue.

 

sleeplessbeader.blogspot.com

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popnicute wrote
on Sep 15, 2008 9:48 AM

as long as they gave the permission.

as for me, i'd never blatantly copying others' works. if any, i'd make them source of my inspiration. maybe use parts of it and then add something else to make them "mine".

also, if you decided to copy and sell the exact same design, you can credit the design you copied. for example: "i made this by following the instruction in Step by Step magazine, June edition" or something else along the line :)

i think most tutorials usually mention to credit the tutorial maker if you use their design.

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on Sep 15, 2008 10:37 AM

 You are more generous than I am. I just had someone copy exactly one of my designs, and they were selling it...and though they mentioned where they saw it, they did not ask me first.

 

sleeplessbeader.blogspot.com

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on Sep 15, 2008 11:06 AM

Copying a design is like copying an article in a newspaper  --  DON'T; that is a violation of copyright law.  Now some items are no longer copyrighted, e.g., I have a book reprinted in 1972 that was previously published in 1904.  Its copyright had expired long before the reprint was done, so it was already in the public domain. 

Now, there is such a thing as fair use, which usually requires giving credit to the originator.  The peson who says "Inspired by ..."  is going beyond fair use; inspiration is seeing a design, and using the technique, or the unique variation, and using different colors, sizes, and producing something else.  That is, the item got you to make something that wasn't the item.

My wife designed a banner for committee she was on, [as a volunteer], the design was hers, The parent organiztion produced a greeting card and failed to credit her, when the error was pointed out, they cerdited her the next year.  Could have been a messy situation for them, if she was pushy, but all she wanted was the acknowledgement thyat she originated that design.  [The similarity was very obvious, the only change was the picture in the center of the design.  Not a "fair use" situation.]

BTW, the US Supreme Court made a very clear case of what is included in "Fair Use"; I do not have the URL handy, but making a design for you to use, not to sell, is "Fair Use".  When I find it, I'll post.

Stan B.

Stan B.

Lakeland, MN

USA

Ignorance is curable; Stupidity has neither cure nor excuse.

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on Sep 15, 2008 11:09 AM

 FAIR USE. That is a good phrase to remember. Thanks, Stan.

 

sleeplessbeader.blogspot.com

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JamieN@3 wrote
on Sep 15, 2008 11:14 AM

To me, copying it totally okay - even if they are to sell.  I am absolutely tickled and flattered when someone likes my design well enough to want to copy it.  I hope they make a million dollars!  Beading, like so many other businesses, is not just about the product but the RELATIONSHIP.  There are many banks, grocery stores, drug stores, clothing stores, or whatever out there as well and you can get similar products and services from each one but the one you choose to use is often about the relationship you have or the way you are treated.

For me, there are just so many more things to worry about and I love sharing designs and inspiration with other beaders as well as customers.  Why else would someone submit designs for publication or even sell their designs if they are worried someone else would 'steal' them.  I didn't invent Right Angle Weave; I just apply it ... sometimes.

I realise my opinion on this often hotly debated topic is in the minority, but I really struggle to understand why people are so territorial about something like this.  I find it quite surprising actually.  Why not revel in the experience rather than guard it??

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on Sep 15, 2008 11:17 AM

Here are the URLs, they come from a genealogy list, but the law is the same:

<http://neuro.law.cornell.edu/supct/search/search.html?query=copyright&scope=onlysyllabi>
Especially:     NEW YORK TIMES CO. V. TASINI
[Syllabus]
Where freelance authors' articles in print periodicals were republished in electronic databases without the authors' consent, the copying was not authorized by the reproduction privilege afforded collective works publishers under §201(c) of the Copyright Act.



Copyright Fundamentals for Genealogy
by Michael Patrick Goad  at: < http://www.pddoc.com/copyright/>


10 Big Myths about copyright explained
<http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html>


See also:
TITLE 17 > CHAPTER 1 > § 107
This is the copyright law.  No URL for it.

Stan B.

Stan B.

Lakeland, MN

USA

Ignorance is curable; Stupidity has neither cure nor excuse.

Top 10 Contributor
Posts 2,145
on Sep 15, 2008 11:28 AM

JamieN:

To me, copying it totally okay - even if they are to sell.  I am absolutely tickled and flattered when someone likes my design well enough to want to copy it.  I hope they make a million dollars!  Beading, like so many other businesses, is not just about the product but the RELATIONSHIP.  <SNIP>

For me, there are just so many more things to worry about and I love sharing designs and inspiration with other beaders as well as customers.  Why else would someone submit designs for publication or even sell their designs if they are worried someone else would 'steal' them.

  I didn't invent Right Angle Weave; I just apply it ... sometimes.

You are the exception, thank God there are some like you!  I wish ther were more like you and Jaycee.  But the law protects ALL intellectual rights.  You have given peremission in your post; Jaycee states on her site that you may copy, but not for mass production; you'd need to read the exact wording on her site.

Few stiches, if any, are new, and thus are not under copyright.

Stan B.

Stan B.

Lakeland, MN

USA

Ignorance is curable; Stupidity has neither cure nor excuse.

Top 75 Contributor
Posts 367
on Sep 15, 2008 11:47 AM

 A friend of mine recently had an exhibition of her paintings, and one of her largest works was stolen from the gallery. "What a compliment," another friend said, "that someone liked it so much they stole it."

This was an insult, not flattery, an act which stole value and worth from my friend's efforts. It literally robbed my friend of the income her painting would have produced had it been sold. The economic issue is a big part of this debate. Overseas companies are ripping artists off left and right already, mass producing original designs. On any scale, we shouldn't be doing this to each other. Some may say, "Oh, just come up with more ideas!" I say, "Why don't those who copy come up with THEIR own ideas?

This isn't about who invented netting or herringbone, or the first person to link peyote rings together. it's about ORIGINAL DESIGN. And, if someone is selling this design, why would anyone think it was okay to remake the same thing and sell it themselves?

You who are altrusitic enough--or maybe wealthy enough not to worry-- to allow others to profit from your creations, I commend your generosity, and happily invite new project ideas sent to us--but at least you are making the choice for yourself.

Perhaps we need more prominent disclaimers in all our titles. Clearly the ones we have already are not getting noticed.

What about the right to reprint and sell the project pages from the magazine and market it as your kit? Is this different?

 

sleeplessbeader.blogspot.com

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Sheila H wrote
on Sep 15, 2008 11:49 AM

 There was a similar discussion previously. I think it is a hard line for some. I agree with the inspiration idea. But I don't think that I have ever copied something exact and then sold it.

To add confusion to the mix here ( Not that I am advocating this ) but what constitues mass production. I don't think that me by myself can mass produce but you see where I am going.

Unfortunately there are so many ways that things can be interpreted differently. Everyone that reads that may take it differently. For me, If I put it out there and you want to copy it. I wish you the best. I hope that something I create is good enough to be copied. Someone said that the greatess form of flattery is copying... or something like that.

That is my thought at least. As previously stated, if I can lay my head down and sleep comfortably at night, then I must be okay. No guilty conscience.

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JudithB@33 wrote
on Sep 15, 2008 12:06 PM

 An important issue, but one with fuzzy edges. I made up a version of the free "Parallel Chain Neckdrape" the same day I saw it. Mine used larger rings, extended only three rows not four, and I attached it with double rings to a ready-made magnetic neck cord and added a bead dangle. Then I started trying out other dangles and embellishments, and started thinking, "Hey! I could make several of these to sell, maybe add my own Designed-by tag . ."  And then thinking, no, I can't.  My question: How close a rendition is copying? Is this basic mesh in the public domain? Is making it up in a triangular form so unique as to be uncopyable? When I come up with some design of my own, I figure that if it is really appealing others will make something similar. I assume that craftsmanship and artistic nuance will take the best work to the top. I remember when wire wrapping was a closely kept technique; now it is not and many are doing it, often with similar or identical patterns. But you can still tell which work is the best. I look forward to reading comments by others.

 

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JeanS@65 wrote
on Sep 15, 2008 12:12 PM

 I agree.  I got into beading after being in basketweaving for several years.  I never heard a basket teacher or pattern author say you couldn't make baskets from their patterns and sell them.  I was really surprised when I saw how possessive beaders are of their patterns.  To me, if you buy a pattern from them or their pattern is published, people are free to use it as they wish.

Top 75 Contributor
Posts 367
on Sep 15, 2008 1:02 PM

 We have Bead Fest teachers who do specifically request their students not go out and sell recreations or teach what they learn in that class.  And, here we are, asking the same thing, yet people continue to disregard our wishes.

Remember the line in Jurassic Park where Jeff Goldblum's character says, "Just because we CAN, doesn't mean we SHOULD?" I believe pieces copied most are the simple and fast designs, the ones people look at and think, "I can make that!" Something as intricate as basketweaving probably would not be as likely an arena for copycats, not on a great scale certainly. It's simply easier to copy a piece of jewelry. 

Also, payment is not much for the designs we bead magazines publish. Contributors count on continued exposure and building their reputation as teachers and artists as part of what they earn. When others copy their work--and perhaps not craft it as well--and sell it, it diminishes the value of the original design and may reflect poorly on the designer, in the case of less expertly made designs.

Simple courtesy begins with crediting the original artist, but should extend to asking permission. Then it comes down to choice. Give permission or not, comply or not. Sheds a little light on our characters, ultimately, in what we choose to say, artist or student.

We may learn from imitation, but growth comes from inspiration. That's a choice we make, too.

 

 

 

sleeplessbeader.blogspot.com

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BrendaM@58 wrote
on Sep 15, 2008 1:37 PM

I too, feel that this issue is a little fuzzy.  What about technique classes you take and then produce similar pieces later for sale?  Now when I say similar I mean similar in design, none of my pieces are ever exactly, and of course I use different materials and colors, etc.  There have been times when I have wanted to enter one of my pieces into a contest, but when they mention original design I hesitate and then don't enter.  All of my "techniques" were learned in a classroom.  Though my designs are similar they are not exact, are they my designs or someone elses?  I will see a jewelry piece in a magazine, on the tv (Bones is great for jewelry designs - Temperance wears great necklaces), on display and will adapt them to the materials I have availalble.   I think of this as inspiration not copying since my pieces may look similar - they are not copies.

Copyright laws are always an issue and should be taken seriously.  If in doubt get permission to re-create if you plan to sell the piece.

Brenda

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AlisaV wrote
on Sep 15, 2008 2:05 PM

 If the design you're copying is published in a magazine or on-line, or other widely used method, then yes.  Go ahead and copy.  If someone doesn't want you to copy their work, then they shouldn't publish it.  Copying is how we learn.  HOWEVER, if you do copy someone's work, you should ALWAYS give the credit where credit is due. 

 

Alisa

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