That Darn Knot

This post has 12 Replies | 1 Follower
Not Ranked
Posts 1
Joyce@143 wrote
on Jul 6, 2008 2:24 PM

 I'm trying to make some simple bracelets on stretchy cord.  After patiently stringing 942, 873 beads on, I am stumped by tying the knot.  I've read about the "surgeon's knot," but apparently don't get it.  The bracelet wants to  twist and the beads want to become part of the knot.  Then, of course, they all escape and I'm back at the beginning.

Help!

Top 10 Contributor
Posts 2,260
Billy Z wrote
on Jul 6, 2008 6:50 PM

 Okay, I feel sure that you know how to make an overhand knot, correct? When you make the loop and pull the thread back through, instead of pulling the knot tight, flip the free end of the thread over the top again and pull it back through the loop a second time, then pull it tight. When pulled tight, the knot will roll up on it's side and look somewhat like a wire wrapped loop. This knot will normally never work loose on it's own, but stretch cord isn't normal by any standards, so a spot of good glue on the knot as a safeguard might save you some grief later. Good luck. ;o)  

 I yam wut I yam and dats all wut I yam. ~Popeye~

Dragonfly Jewelry Designs - ArtFire Artisan Studio

 

Top 10 Contributor
Posts 2,815
ForumModerator
Sheila H wrote
on Jul 8, 2008 2:46 PM

 I never really understood how to make this type of knot either. I would always tighten the first before doing the second pass so this helps me too. Finally a direction that makes sense of it!!

Top 10 Contributor
Posts 2,260
Billy Z wrote
on Jul 8, 2008 8:12 PM

 Glad to be of service. Now on to explain the Josephine Knot! Not! *grinz* I can tie one, but I am not sure that I could write it down in any fashion that would make any sense at all.

Billy ;o)

 I yam wut I yam and dats all wut I yam. ~Popeye~

Dragonfly Jewelry Designs - ArtFire Artisan Studio

 

Top 75 Contributor
Posts 367
on Jul 9, 2008 10:49 AM

I always called this a surgeon's knot. Good description Dragonfly!

 

sleeplessbeader.blogspot.com

Top 10 Contributor
Posts 2,260
Billy Z wrote
on Jul 9, 2008 11:40 AM

 Some of the old timers around here call it a 'Stitch Knot' because that is how they knot stitches, but yeah, it is a Surgeon's Knot. I was just teasing about the Josephine Knot. It is a very hard to tie decorational knot. I haven't tied one since the Boy Scouts, but that got me the Merit Badge. Google it and you will see what I mean. Even with pictures, it is hard to do. An old fisherman showed me how to tie it and it was nowhere near as bad as the pics made out, but it is a royal pain in the butt, and it took me about 10 minutes(maybe more) to tie it. Trust me, it is nothing that you will ever need to know, unless you are some kind of macrame queen or something, and you just want it in your portfolio of things that you can do.

 Billy ;o)

 I yam wut I yam and dats all wut I yam. ~Popeye~

Dragonfly Jewelry Designs - ArtFire Artisan Studio

 

Top 25 Contributor
Posts 1,335
DebWAZ wrote
on Jul 9, 2008 3:46 PM

I've tried surgeon's knots with stretch and they always come undone. I hate working with stretch anyway and only (grudgingly) do it when I have to do a repair of something that was done on stretch. A customer came in and showed me a REALLY GOOD knot that doesn't come undone, even without glue. I like this knot so much I use it when putting beads on temporary strands of fishing line.

How to do this knot - take both ends as they come out of the beads and hold the tails parallel  with the cut ends together, like this  ===== . Tie them as you would for an overhand knot, BUT before you tighten it, bring BOTH ends through the loop once more and THEN pull tight. As you pull it tight, the knot will look like a figure 8. The disadvantage is that the knot is a bit clunky looking. Because I don't EVER trust ANY knot in stretch, I still put glue on it and cover it with a bead or a crimp cover (closed carefully to keep from cutting the stretch).

Hope this helps!

Deb - AZ Bead Depot

Deb

azbeaddepot.blogspot.com

 

 

 

Top 10 Contributor
Posts 2,260
Billy Z wrote
on Jul 9, 2008 6:30 PM

 Deb, that is a 'Double Surgeon's Knot'. A regular surgeon's knot is using a single thread and is normally used for tying off at one end of your thread/string/cord and the double is using both thread ends as they meet in the middle. I kind of forgot about that one since I don't do stretch. Everything has clasps and usually a single ended thread. Sorry about that. I don't blame you about glueing knots, I do too and I never use anything that stretches except silk cord and I always pre-stretch it. I have a 6 oz. with with a hole in it. I hang that on the end and use one of those wide office paperclips to keep it in place and leave it there for a day or two and it is always nicely stretched. I probably will use that other stuff if someone specifically asks for it, but no one has as of yet. I refuse to have someone talk trash about me and my workmanship over something a silly as a knot coming untied. Bad word of mouth spreads 4x fast as good and can hurt your business far worse than the good word helps it. That you can count on.

Billy ;o)

 I yam wut I yam and dats all wut I yam. ~Popeye~

Dragonfly Jewelry Designs - ArtFire Artisan Studio

 

Not Ranked
Posts 3
jenluvsjoolz wrote
on Jul 22, 2008 2:28 PM

 I have a hard time tying knots in silk thread or satin cord.

 

Top 10 Contributor
Posts 2,260
Billy Z wrote
on Jul 22, 2008 7:45 PM

 I do too. That is why I use a pair of hemostats and a pick. Roll the cord around the hemostats and comeup behind the first thread. Pull it across and clamp it with the hemostats. Then all you do is take your pick and run it down to the end of the string(or wherever you want it) and pull the cord tight with the stats.

 I had to learn a different way when my hands started to freeze up on me. I can still tie knots in rope without any assistance, but the smaller it gets, the harder it is to do.

 Try that and see how it works for you. Good luck.

 Billy ;o)

 I yam wut I yam and dats all wut I yam. ~Popeye~

Dragonfly Jewelry Designs - ArtFire Artisan Studio

 

Top 200 Contributor
Posts 113
Radiance@3 wrote
on Aug 3, 2008 11:30 AM
Forgive me if I've just missed it, but I don't think there's been any mention here of reversing direction on the second half of a knot... which is the most critical element in keeping the knot from sliding apart, at least in my experience.

You just tie the first half the knot, either a single loop (like the first half of tying a shoelace) or the double "surgeon's" loop, and then you tie exactly the same thing again BUT BACKWARDS. This is a very secure knot. Again, if that was already obvious and I'm just blind to it, ignore me...
Carol
Top 10 Contributor
Posts 2,144
on Aug 6, 2008 7:48 PM

Well, we always have to teach new scouts "Left over right, right over left" so they get the square knot tied properly, so I think beaders can use a reminder.

Stan B.

Stan B.

Lakeland, MN

USA

Ignorance is curable; Stupidity has neither cure nor excuse.

Top 200 Contributor
Posts 113
Radiance@3 wrote
on Aug 10, 2008 9:17 AM
Oh, of course -- it's understood here because you're talking about square knots, as opposed to granny knots! Sorry to be dense...
Carol
Page 1 of 1 (13 items) | RSS